Things Vero 4K + *cannot* do?


#22

I just checked Rockchip RK3399 data sheet. It’s not clear from the datasheet that the SoC actually supports 4:2:2 hardware decoding. Only HEVC main/main10 are listed as supported.


#26

It does not support WOL :-:confused:


#27

Yes, our Vero 4K and 4K + are always-on devices and don’t support WOL.


#28

Is “power state after powerfailure” configurable?


#29

If the power fails and comes back, the device will be turned on.
You could detect an unclean shutdown with a script, and perform some action on that if you wished.

Sam


#30

Any reason why you will never support Dolby Vision, especially if it becomes possible to rip the metadata into a new container?


#31

Anything to do with Dolby is very aggressive. There are some things that aren’t fit for public forum.

If things change, we’d add it, but for now, it’s a definitive no.


#32

Fair enough. Keep up the good work!


#33

Thing is, Dolby Vision isn’t going to go away. Here in Germany even a cheap 700 Euro 4K set comes with support plus dozens of movies, several other TV sets, Blu-ray players and of course streaming apps and devices. On my LG DV looks amazing and definitely better then plain HDR. So I hope whatever the reasons are that this can’t be implemented right now that some day there will be a way to so the Vero will be 100% perfect instead of 98% :slightly_smiling_face:


#34

Open source projects such as osmc and proprietary Dolby tech just don’t go hand In hand.


#35

It’ll be an extra cost to all existing owners as well, some of which may not want to pay for it.

Alternatively, you can raise the price for future owners to subsidize current owners, but that’s probably not a great idea either.


#36

For me: cost isn’t the issue. It’s a variation clause that allows the price of licensing to change at any time and be retroactively backdated for all devices sold.

If they don’t change that adoption will be low


#37

Sounds like it could be a software option (or closed source Plug-In) with an included kill switch if they ever raise the price. This would mean that the blame and risk wouldn’t last on your shoulders but Dolbys.

I have a feeling that a huge number of current users would gladly pay a premium for it though.


#38

I know I would and probably a lot of other people as well. And then again we would need to get a working netflix addon that is capable of doing 4k and HDR :blush:


#39

And that’s probably never happening. Netflix can’t enforce their layout on Kodi and they don’t even maintain apps on other platforms properly - which are completely closed source. Seeing addons which can at least give 720p-1080p streaming from Netflix will be all we can ask for on open source unfortunately, I suppose.

And Dolby Vision is just the absolute opposite of what open source stands for.


#40

I still think Dolby Vision has lost this one.

Keep in mind that for a 4K UHD disc: HDR10 is mandatory; and DV is not. That will be the deciding factor.

My personal opinion:

Summary

Dolby Vision would theoretically lead to a consistent standard across displays. This would allow them to monopolise the technology and lock others out.

TV manufacturers do not want this. Samsung developed HDR10 extensively and the shortfall of HDR10 is a lack of dynamic metadata; which is something that will be resolved in HDR10+.

Every TV vendor rebranded CEC. They may want to do the same with HDR or at least have you believe that their implementation of HDR is superior to others.

Dolby Vision requires full control of TV settings. TV vendors are unlikely to completely succeed sovereignty of post processing management. They may do so now to tick boxes and sell displays – but they won’t do this for all content.

When I said DV would lead to a standard, it wouldn’t in practicality. If you think MPEG-LA are bad; you do not ■■■■ with Dolby.

HDR 10+ looks like the future to me, and that’s we work on.


#41

I actually like that DV takes control of the television post processing because for me it seems like you get a picture that is automatically calibrated to the intentions of the metadata (if you know what I mean, maybe I can’t articulate that right).

However, I also get why you don’t want to implement it. Seeing all the trouble Sony and LG had with their implementation it’s probably a mess working with them. But considering Dolby’s weight I’m not sure that DV will go away so I can only hope that my next set will support HDR10+.

Or do you think a HDR10±>Dolby Vision converter box could be created (HDFury would be a candidate)? The formats seem close enough but I don’t really know the finer technical implementations.


#42

For practical purposes, Dolby Digital audio support is mandatory on many devices, while DD+/TrueHD/Atmos support is not. Do you expect DD+ and Atmos formats to die out, and everything to fall back to plain DD, just because plain DD is universally supported while more advanced codecs are not? Will DTS also defeat DTS-HD, and 1080p defeat 4K?

Sony’s DV-compatible blu ray player has the ability to convert HDR10 to DV on the fly, so it may be possible technically; but it’s highly unlikely Dolby would ever license DV for a device like that, HDFury has been known to weather lawsuits, but I suspect Dolby would be pretty vicious about enforcing their IP.


#43

No software player exists that can deal with dual layer streams. The only known hardware player able to play such files in an BDMV Format is the Oppo 203/205 as it is technical an M2TS player by design and make no difference between discs or HDD. And there it ends.

So even if you Remux the DV Enhancement Layer into what ever container that supports it properly (no problem as DV is just wrapped in a 1920x1080 HEVC), no player will pick it up. It just sits there and does nothing.

And support in software players (it’s the mixing of the streams) will never happen. Even Power DVD cannot acquire a license for obvious reasons. If PDVD could do it, then it would not be a biggie to reverse engineer. Power DVD is the pirate’s best friend, guess how people got UHD keys initially and then knew how to adjust firmware as they knew what they were looking for. Hence Dolby will never give the the information or some kind of SDK. They are not that stupid.

Even DV enabled TVs can’t do that that mixing. It’s a thing Dolby created explicitly for UHD BD players. It’s hardware for DV players only, you get chips from Dolby (it’s the unmarked chip in the Oppo’s smaller board), put it in your hardware design and an SDK to interface it from your hardware and software. But the magic is in the chip, good look reverse engineering that.

If you want DV you need to play physical discs on a real UHD BD Player with Dolby Vision Support (exception the Oppo as an M2TS player). It’s Hardware. End of story. Will never happen in software. And for UHD BD they opted for DV Profile 7 that means one HDR10 stream and a DV Enhncement Layer (wrapped inside HEVC 1920x1080) not a single stream.

Might other players in the future surface that play DV M2TS FIles in a BDMV structure? Maybe, but none on the horizon. So the pricey Oppo for Rips or original discs for any cheap DV player. And Oppo is winding down the business, so no new players anymore.

Also it is not possible to make a single layer out of DV UHDs. Because it’s not open. The logic is in hardware of mixing layers with a result that matches the capabilities of your display. All this happens in a proprietary color space with some amazing maths. It’s really great what the Dolby engineers came up here with as a full package.

If UHDBD with DV would be single layer, well than any TV would be able to play it right away with no problems from a thumb drive. It’s the mixing of the DV data with HDR10 that’s the problem. Theoretical if you would have a Dolby Vision Color Mapping Unit (you get that when you license as a studio) then you could theoretical create different streams from the data acquired from a disk (re-encode required in a single layer DV profile). No way to just “convert” it, without knowing the exakt details which are in Dolby Hardware.

HDR10+? Well comes also as an enhancement layer but is open, but not much interest so far (two documentary discs exists). But inferior to DV in any way, as DV calculates a picture from HDR10 data, DV data in regards to the capability of your TV. You want that magic, or it will look crappy and you are better of with HDR10. HDR10+ doesn’t offer all that, and comes with the same shortcomings as HDR10 initially came: it looks extremely different on various display. It’s basically an extension of HDR10 with no quality standards. DV aims to give the same look from the dailies on the set up to delivery in your home. It’s a great system for that alone in the full production chain. HLG? Don’t even start, cheap fixed gamma curve adjustmen to make an altered SDR steam look “better” in SDR and in HDR (extremely crappy on all non HLG TVs). It’s horrible. DV is currently the best the industry has to offer.

Streaming Services you say? Well good luck finding the codec that does DV from a single layer stream or the GPU that can do it with a proper driver. On TVs with Amazon Prime and Netflix they access the hardware for playback that can decode DV to create an output appropiate for your display. That’s the reason why no DV WEB-DLs exist even some stuff is offered over streaming services.

TLDR: So Dolby Vision is great, but you can’t rip it from UHD BDs and play it on whatever media center you like as Dolby VIsion is an enhancement layer with complete video processing for the display’s capabilities and not just “additional bits”. So far the only exception is the Oppo 203/205 in regards to rip - but well that’s not a media player like Kodi. Sure, if some Chinese company could get a licensing deal with Dolby, put chips designed for UHD BD player in their media player and the SoC itself interfaces it, well then things might look different. But well, I wouldn’t hold my breath for that to happen anytime soon. And there will be no new Oppos, they leaving the market…


#44

What about the Cambridge Audio CXUHD? It’s based on the same SoC as the Oppo players.

That is necessarily a subjective opinion, but it’s also one that I think hardly anyone would agree with you about.