Kodi 18 Released


While I understand what you are saying and I understand you have your standards and you don’t want to air dirty laundry I think just saying v18 was shipped with a bit of code that’s not really up to my standard and I’m fixing it and this may take some time to do would be a lot better than just saying v18 will be shipped when it’s ready.

Don’t let people blame you for delays if you are just fixing other people’s mistakes

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If people would stop nagging Sam here, he would have more time finishing the update. Just seeing Sam having to reply here with long posts is counter productive. Let him do his job.

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Since the issue is with cmake scripts there’s really no one to blame.

If you don’t work in IT you don’t know what it means to estimate an ETA and respect it. When deadlines have to be met developers will always tend to give long ETA’s because you have to take multiple things into account, external providers might delay, something for which you estimated X might take Y amount of time, etc.

Since OSMC doesn’t have a fixed deadline developers can say “when it’s ready” and focus on quality, something which is often neglected nowadays because deadlines are so strict that you either have to choose between taking your time to fix stuff and do it perfectly or do it at your best to meet the deadline.

Would you like kodi for osmc to be released in a broken state? I for sure wouldn’t. If you expect quality let people work and wait till it’s ready.




tick tock



Why can’t I like a post more than once? This is so true.



How should Sam do somethink on OSMC if he had always response the “Where is the new Version” Questions?

The same people who are asking where is the new OSMC, 15 seconds after a new Kodi is released are complaining if he released it directly after it, and it’s not working proper.



I worked for 5 yrs in a CMMI-5 rated software development environment. 100% bug-free code was the mandate. No exceptions.

When I left that job, we believed all critical errors were fixed. The project continued for 15 more years. Part of the software validation was root cause analysis for any bugs found at any point of the development process. There were 7 levels of testing to the system, 5 of those levels happened by outside companies who reported to a different govt directorate. Their independence was critical.

Over those 15 remaining years, over 100 critical bugs were found in the software which existed at the time we believed it to be bug free. It is hard to explain to non-developers, but every line of code that I touched has my name attached. There is no hiding. As a development team of 15 people, we were causing less than 1 bug every other year in the code. Extremely high quality software that wasn’t trivial.

A critical bug was something that could cause catastrophic vehicle loss and total loss of crew. Each vehicle was estimated to be worth over $2B. Bugs were found during missions, but none ever prevented the mission from being completed or broke the vehicle(s). There were other catastrophic vehicle failures, unfortunately. These were world news for months.

So … I can say with some authority that angry.sardine is correct. The program “Tex” is commonly used as the example of nearly bug free code in the world. Don Knuth wrote it and paid bug bounties for any errors found. Errors were so rare that people didn’t usually cash the cheque, preferring to post it on their walls instead.



I don’t understand the purpose of this discussion.

People who can’t wait for Kodi 18 should install the osmc dev version and use it. That’s what I did. Since months. I am running 4 osmc Kodi instances with the dev version.

If something doesn’t work it helps the development, if everything works, that should be fine as well. Software doesn’t work better if it’s labeled release, it just gets better from working out the bugs or problems.



Indeed, and presumably you were working with a well-defined set of inputs, well defined ‘vehicles’, 3rd party software which was subject to the same rigorous checks and you could test the results right in front of you on the target hardware.





The bigger the company the worse. That’s the feeling I have. It’s like they release bad stuff on purpose and let the customer be the testuser :frowning:

One of the main reasons I’ve bought the Vero 4k+ is because it’s doing a wonderful job out-of-the-box.

And this is something that you don’t see a lot anymore.

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I’m ok with the extra time before v18.1, as it allows me to perfect my set up for the most part prior to release. Once it is out, all I have to do is double check to make sure nothing is broken post upgrade.



If we’re being fair to all, this is a problem that the OSMC team has contributed to, through their public communication.

Check out Sam’s comment about “a few days”, back in November: Kodi 18.0 RC1 has been released. When can we expect OSMC to be updated?

Further, ActionA’s later comment in the same thread left open the possibility of delivering the Leia version of OSMC as soon as early February. Even if this was a possibility, what was to be gained by letting that idea persist?

At that time, especially because the thread could be read by anyone with any level of knowledge, the expectations could have been clearly set that (a) the 18.0 release date was irrelevant to the OSMC release date, and (b) it could be more like a few weeks, not just days, after the 18.1 release before the next OSMC could be ready.

I’m happy with OSMC, and grateful to the team for building and supporting a product that is a big part of my life. But I hope that for Kodi 19 the release messaging will improve, and there might also be some visibility into the status of the tasks going into getting to the release.



Kodi 18 was not released in November.
V18.1 was released almost at the end of February.

From that, I think we can still say we are still in the timeframe of a few days after the official release, as I outlined.

Hopefully I’ve outlined the unforeseen circumstances above which have caused delays.



Extremely off-topic.

No 3rd party software. It was 100% custom. All device controls were 100% custom.

None of the programmers I knew ever physically touched the target hardware, the vehicles, or even the simulators, where our code ran. Once, I got within about 100 ft of one of the vehicles when it stopped overnight while being moved from the west coast to the east coast.

Our development environment did cross-compilation for the target. There wasn’t much of an OS, we called them “system services”. They were mainly used to manage all the threads and prevent higher priority threads from interrupting lower priority threads at bad times. There were 254 threads running. It was a real-time system, as all flight control systems are.

Generally, code changes took over a year after finalized before they’d be used in a mission. Last minute changes would be finalized at least 6 months prior to a flight.
If anyone cares - CMMI-5 is here: https://cmmiinstitute.com/learning/appraisals/levels

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And users misconstruing vague and loose estimations of timelines is why staff have now resorted to answering any such question with “when it’s ready.” It’s been made clear that projecting any possible or estimated time frames results in these time sink, semantic, kerfuffles in almost all cases.



I suggest that @sam_nazarko at work ( so basically 22 h per day ) wears helmet with a always online gopro attached to it that streams a live feed to this forum just for the sake of transparency :see_no_evil:

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Thank you for all your hard work! As much as I’m itching to get Kodi 18, I’d rather wait on OSMC than use one of the other options.



I don’t see an ETA in that reply you linked to.

You made those estimates.

The team is absolutely not to blame if they don’t release updates when you expect them to. There’s no reason why they would delay updates if they have them ready, do you really think they would do that?

You’re really not helping with this attitude. Just act like an adult and wait like the rest of us does.



@sam_nazarko any chance that apt-transport-https could be added as a pre-installed package for the v18 update? Since its used by Netflix, Plex, and other media apps.



It’s not a dependency of Kodi.
Which packages are requiring HTTPS?

Eventually we will move the mirror system to HTTPS; so it will be depended on by base-files-osmc at some point.