Can The Vero 4K Support The Updated HDR10+ Dynamic Metadata Spec?


#1

Looks like the HDR10 spec is being updated to support dynamic metadata. The updated spec is simply called HDR10+. Will the Vero 4K be able to support HDR10+ via a software update?


Vero 4K General Discussion
#2

Possibly :grin:

It is still a 10-bit standard.
The next thing we will look at in this area is the possibility of implementing HLG.

Sam


#3

I’d be curious to know this, too. Especially because there has been quite contradictory information out there about whether HDR10+ can be supported by HDMI 2.0 devices by a simple firmware update. Do you have any information on that?


#4

And have there been any new info on DV support?


#5

DV support is not technically possible. That would require a whole new SOC.


#6

Oh, I see.


#7

But with HDR10+ it might be different. Is that so?


#8

Possibly. Samsung is updating HDR10 players to support HDR10+ via firmware.

Maybe it depends on whether or not HRD10+ requires HDMI 2.0a or 2.0b.


#9

Yep, that’s also what I can find out. And it seems that Samsung is working hard on using the info frames to transport the extra HDR10+ meta data over HDMI 2.0:

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/focus.php?subaction=showfull&id=1516011308

Do the devs here have some insight that we might not have into whether HDR10+ will be possible over HDMI 2.0? E.g. @sam_nazarko?

In the news surrounding CES 2018 there was nothing concrete about this as far is I know. Especially not about AVRs and support on that side. Which would be very important, if devices like the Vero 4k, that don’t have separate HDMI outputs for video and audio, will support HDR10+. If passthrough through AVRs isn’t implemented for HDMI 2.0 the format would pretty much be worthless for most users - it will be a long road for HDMI 2.1 to be established. And it won’t be too beneficial for AV and home cinema for most…


#10

What I see more important than the dynamic HDR is the new eARC on the HDMI 2.1 spec. I know that this new standard requires new hardware for bandwith reasons, so features like this one are probably not going to be introduced into the 2.0 via firmware update.

Is there a posibility to change the HDMI port in a new iteration of the same Vero 4K product?

It’s already been stated that this machine is going to be in the market for a while before having a new Vero product made, but changing only a port (and its connections) doesn’t seem like that big of a change.


#11

How would that be useful or even related to the Vero 4k?
It’s a feature for TVs only - to stream object based sound formats and lossless audio back to the AVR.


#12

I have my Pi2 connected to a TV via an AVR in the middle. I cannot play this new audio formats.
I guess it would be the same with a Vero.


#13

This doesn’t have anything to do with the HDMI standard… The Pi can’t passthrough HD audio due to limited bandwidth of the HDMI port (24bit 48kHz 7.1 only, HD audio passthrough requires a bandwidth of 24bit 192kHz 7.1 to transport the data stream) which is HDMI 1.4 BTW. It’s not related to the HDMI standard, but the Pi’s hardware…

The Vero 4k can bitstream all HD audio formats and has a HDMI 2.0a port.

Audio return channel or the enhanced audio return channel of HDMI 2.1 is an audio back channel transporting audio streams from the TV’s internal apps to the AVR via the one HDMI cable which normally transports video from the AVR to the TV. :wink:


#14

The thing is that if I connect the Pi directly to the TV I can’t get 5.1 audio outputing through the A/V speakers. So in order to be able to pass 5.1 audio from both the Pi and the TV to the A/V I need the ARC channel.
With eARC I’m not talking about 7.1 but Atmos and DTS:X.


#15

If I’m understanding you correctly, you can’t get 5.1 OR 7.1 OR any HD audio steam to your AVR when connecting your setup like this:

RPi -> via HDMI -> TV -> via HDMI -> AVR

This was never possible and will not even be possible with eARC for this reason: For this to work, the TV would have to passthrough the audio signal coming from the RPi via HDMI back to the AVR via the audio return channel of the HDMI connection between TV and AVR. This doesn’t work for several reasons…

  1. TVs take the incoming HDMI audio signal and decode it. They are not built to passthrough any audio streams. It’s the same, if you connect your TV to your AVR via Toslink (RPi -> via HDMI -> TV -> via Toslink -> AVR) the TV will not passthrough the 5.1 DTS or Dolby signal to the AVR, but just a 2.0 PCM signal. It’s only passing on the decoded signal, if any.
  2. The TV would have to know from where to TAKE the audio stream and where to passthrough it TO. So, assuming you RPi is connected to HDMI1 of your TV and the AVR is connected to HDMI2 of your TV, the TV would have to know that it’s supposed to passthrough the audio signal from HDMI1 over to HDMI2. No TV does that or can even do that. And the ARC (and eARC) is not meant to do this.

ARC the same as eARC is JUST to take audio from INTERNAL TV apps (Netflix, Amazon, internal TV tuners) back to the AVR. It can’t and will never do anything else.
So, you should connect you RPi directly to the AVR via HDMI. The RPi can stream Dolby (including Dolby Digital+), DTS and PCM signals as high as 7.1 24bit 48kHz to your AVR. It can’t do more. And no ARC/eARC connection can change that.
Only the Vero 4k can stream all HD audio signals via HDMI. And the same as I worte before (1. and 2.) applies to a setup with the Vero 4k.

BTW: This is going completely off-topic. So, if you have any more question regarding your setup and how ARC/eARC works, you’re welcome to PM me or post this question in a new thread…


HDMI audio passthrough LG B6P?
#16

Right. We better stop this digression. Thanks for the information anyway!