Bluetooth trouble after latest update, 5 seconds until the Vero 4k is responsive on Harmony actvity start


#63

Oh here one thing I forgot to mention: To get started with RF and the keyboard and dongles, you need to go to the harmony app and select update the harmony and then add smart keyboard… afterwards it wants to detect the RF dongles, which are labeled as „1“ and „2“… but it seemed my dongles were actually mixed up and when the app wanted me to put in 1 and I did put in 1 (into my PC) nothing happened… l turned out I had to put in 2 when it asked for 1 and vice versa. Anyway once the dongles are registered with the hub, they will work with anything. But it probably will always have go be a Windows (or Mac) profile because that is what they were designed to be. The fact that they actually don‘t need any drivers makes them usuable on anything, as long as a Windows profile is sufficient for your needs. Which will be everything that has a keymapper like Kodi.


#64

Habe you actually come any further with your support ticket at Logitech? The thread ends at some point and it doesn’t like there’s any help coming from them…


#65

No I am out of there. People did not understand the Problem, hijacked the thread, gave useless advice. The lonely Logitech guy didn‘t get it either and was more interested in helping guys with a completely unrelated Fire TV Stick problem. Total waste of time, I doubt any information went to their devs. And most likely they would not care either. No Firmware update either since then, still on 193. But I do not care because…

… since discovering the RF dongles, I am not using bluetooth at all with any device. The experience with the RF dongles is great and comes with alot of extra perks, like having the remote always working even when you restart the Vero 4k. With bluetooth I had to start the activity again if I restarted the Vero (for Updates for example), not neccassary any more, the dongle doesn‘t care what you do as long as it always has power which is always with the Vero 4k.


#66

In the USA, is there a place to buy these RF dongles without buying the whole keyboard? BT works, but it’s not super reliable (sometimes multiple inputs interpreted on a single-button press on my Harmony elite).

Ideally I’d like two of these dongles for my two Vero devices.

That said, if it’s a problem getting numbers or letters to work, that would be annoying. I use the SMS-like controls of navigating movies by letters, and number keys to go to different points in a movie (e.g. I can type on my Harmony Elite: 12736, to go to 1 hour 27 minutes and 36 seconds - it’s pretty cool). Is this still possible with these RF adapters?

And lastly, since I have two Harmony Elite, I assume I can pair one RF USB adapter with one Smart Hub, and the other RF USB adapter with the other Smart Hub? I guess I don’t know how the pairing process works, so… any help appreciated!

Or… maybe I’m misunderstanding, and this only lets the keyboard itself connect over RF to the Vero, - not my Harmony Elite over RF to the Vero?

Cheers.


#67

Wow, I use the SMS style searching all the time, and I never knew about this feature! (I don’t have a Harmony, just a Dish Network remote via my Vizio TV using CEC).


#68

Yep, it’s pretty neat, especially when people on the forums are having issues at particular time-stamps etc, - makes it a doddle to get to the location without seeking over and over.


#70

@WilliamG

The problem is that the RF dongles are part of the smart keyboard bundle and are paired during the pairing process of the keyboard. The process asks you to turn on the keyboard first. And my guess is, unless the process detects the keyboard, it will not even go to the next step which are the dongles. And even that process is divided into two steps, one step for each dongle, so it could be a problem if you want to pair only one dongle each.

There is no option to pair a single RF dongle since that product does not exist as an official harmony device, it is always meant to be seen as part of the smart keyboard. If someone offers them without the keyboard, then it is probably meant as an replacement for defective dongles.

The fact that it works as I described above is really just a glitch imo. And it only works if you have the Vero connected with bluetooth first once and change to RF later (at least that is what I experienced)… and also the numbers and letters will not show up in the harmony activity for the remote because the whole activity is supposed to be a keyboard based activity and the numbers and letters are therefore reserved for the smart keyboard (at least that is my guess) and other remotes were never supposed to get involved… the fact that they are really seem to be a glitch.

And there is also no guarantee that the glitch will continue to work since Logitech could change it in the next firmware update or when they change the keyboard profile. I can not in good conscience recommend the whole RF solution as being future proof. It works currently in a very limited envirement, that might please some people and might not work at all for others,


#71

Thank you for the detailed responses. Sounds like it won’t quite be enough for my needs. Cheers for taking the time to detail why!


#72

I assume no update to the delay on using Harmony hub remotes with Vero 4K/+? It’s not a major issue, but if anyone had figured out a way (short of downgrading the hub), I’m all ears.


#73

It is still the 193 firmware for the hub, so no change.

The issue is alot less prominent on most other devices I tested, the Vero 4k(+) is just pretty slow on reestablishing a connection. It always was but now it matters.

I played with my shield tv a bit more recently and while I could have used my other RF dongle, I used bluetooth instead… and it was immediately connected, at least faster than what the TV/AVR needed to be ready.

So Logitech probably does not feel the need to change anything and Sam has said the issue is noticed but pretty down on the list.

So yeah, you either use IR (ugh), bluetooth with the delay on startup (ugh) or the RF solution which costs 40 bucks (ugh), which might be lost down the road as well.


#74

Right. It’s not a major deal. For my movie room the projector takes a while to turn on anyway. For my bedroom, my OLED is on instantly and then it’s waiting for a whole five seconds - which feels like an eternity. :smiley:


#75

The issue has been happening to me since the 193 firmware in June. It’s frustrating because my many of Harmony activities include initialisation commands sent to Kodi which my Vero4K now misses.

I have a ticket open with customercare@logitech.com and I’ve been told that it’s been shared internally with their engineering department. There’s been no detailed response from them yet.

I’ve also tried downgrading the firmware which does seem to solve the problem, however, the firmware upgrades automatically overnight which I’ve been told cannot be disabled.

Hopefully a solution will come with Harmony’s next firmware release. I’m unsure if there’s anything which could also be done on the Vero 4K side. @sam_nazarko ?


#76

I don’t know if there’s much we can do here.


#77

The only way currently is to buy the smart keyboard incl. the Rf dongles and use RF instead of bluetooth, as described in this thread before. You might get it used off ebay for very little money. But there is also no guarantee it will work forever as it does now. But right now it is a real great experience for me, not even a reconnect needed when you restart the Vero 4k. And RF is more responsive than bluetooth though most people won‘t notice.


#78

The lag problem is clearly logitech smart harmony hub, firmware 4.15.193, problem.

When reverting to ver. 4.15.96, the problem is gone.


#79

It is gone with a previous firmware of the hub… however this is only true as long as you don‘t switch between two activities with different bluetooth devices… if you switch for example between the Vero 4k actvity and a PS4 bluetooth activity and back to the Vero 4k activity, you will again have the 5 seconds delay, even on the old firmware.

The reason why you don‘t have any delay with the old firmware is because the hub never disconnects from the Vero 4k even when you end the activity. The problem with the 193 is, it will always end the connection when you end the activity.

However, while alot of blame should be on Logitech, the Vero 4k simply is slow establishing a bluetooth connection. This will be noticed on the 193 firmware everytime regardless of what when you start an activity and it also will be noticed when you switch between two different bluetooth activities on older firmwares.


#80

Correct… What I’m wondering: Could there be a reason behind the change in behaviour since the 193 update? Maybe Logitech noticed that Bluetooth connections are always kept active and chose to stop that. :man_shrugging:t2: Or they haven’t even noticed the issue and the support is really bad not acknowledging it. There hasn’t been a new update yet, that’s for sure.


#81

I believe that change was made for energy saving reasons… obviously the hub consumes more energy when it holds a bluetooth connection… also some people might have complained that the hub holding the connection prevents their device from entering some kind of standby.

Long story short: I don‘t believe Logitech will be reverting the hub to its original behavior.


#82

The way things stand at the moment isn’t good; the delay is too noticeable with Vero4K.

If the USB dongle is RF, I wonder if there could be a way to pair the Harmony Elite with Vero’s remote control dongle?


#83

Logitech should just sell the RF dongles from the smart keyboard bundle seperately and make them their own product. Probably not going to happen and neither is support for third party dongles.

This is indeed a bit sad because either way, it is technically possible. Their own RF dongles can be used with their remotes like the harmony elite and ALL others (but you still need the keyboard for the setup) and they do support RF control for certain devices. But since RF solutions are always rather proprietary and not following one standard like bluetooth, it would also mean alot more work for Logitech.

And ultimately, this all seems to be no issue for Logitech anyway. Mainly because popular mainstream devices will establish a bluetooth connection in around 1 second with the hub, so the blame is simply pushed towards the devices that do not.